• Introduces George Goncalves and the theme of high conviction for a banner year versus market inconsistency.
    Jonathan Ferro
  • George Goncalves
    The starting point matters. The idea of rotating out of highly valued tech into industries that need it is challenged because those industries have been kept afloat by low rates and private credit.
  • Asks if the private credit issues are canaries in the coal mine like 2007-2008.
    Jonathan Ferro
  • George Goncalves
    It's worth monitoring, but the focus is on individual credits and providers. This may be part of a cycle where overcapitalized banks didn't lend, forcing private credit to step in, and now we're coming full circle.
  • Asks about consumer stress given the K-shaped economy.
    Jonathan Ferro
  • George Goncalves
    You cannot look at data in aggregate. The 80-90% are stressed. It comes down to collateral and market valuations, making a perfect rotation into industrials difficult.
  • Notes the S&P is only 2% off highs despite the coiling market and asks why growth optimism isn't reflected.
    Jonathan Ferro
  • George Goncalves
    The bull market has stalled. There's a vicious rotation beneath the surface.
  • Asks if he agrees that yields have to bounce, given they've come down to 4%.
    Jonathan Ferro
  • George Goncalves
    I don't agree for a number of reasons. Look at Japan: inflation turned lower, rates are heading lower. We're still in a fungible global bond market. We still think the Fed is only going to cut three times this year.
  • Asks why we would get a bond rally if the administration will find other ways to enact tariffs.
    Annmarie Hordern
  • George Goncalves
    You'll have a market reaction if IEEPA is struck down, but we think there's a Plan B and Plan C. The market would react to the strike-down.
  • Asks why he still sees three rate cuts despite hawkish Fed commentary on the labor market and goods inflation.
    Annmarie Hordern
  • George Goncalves
    Goods inflation is a small part of the basket. Disinflation is happening in housing. The Fed has been scared by inflation and did a disservice by not cutting sooner. Those three cuts should have been done already.
  • Questions the Fed's commitment to 2% inflation given they've been above target for five years.
    Jonathan Ferro
  • George Goncalves
    It is about the outlook of where you think you'll land. They cut when inflation was even higher. Now they're getting skittish.
  • Asks if he agrees the Fed is on a prolonged pause until leadership changes.
    Jonathan Ferro
  • George Goncalves
    That's convenient. Everyone puts their views in the second half. Our view is more nuanced. Any Fed will do the right thing if the data turns.
  • Asks why he moved from four to three expected cuts.
    Annmarie Hordern
  • George Goncalves
    The Fed is not showing a sense of urgency. There will be a reluctance to cut right ahead of the midterms. You have to start easing sooner to see the net benefits.
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